Hi there!
I'm new here and hoping that the experts in HVAC might have any ideas on how to help me deal with my issue as I am running out of options.
I bought a new build townhome in Ontario Canada and moved in May 30th 2023. I got a brand new AC mid June and suddenly the AC breaker started tripping early July. I called the builders warranty and they said get a new AC. I ended up switching my brand new AC for another brand new AC however that didn't fix the issue.
The builder finally sent out an electrician. He read the readings and tightened some screws on the panel and left. This didn't fix it either.
The second visit he changed the breaker. I inquired about changing the wiring/cable from the panel to the unit or changing the whole panel and they didn't want to. This again didn't fix the issue.
The third time the electrician came he changed the wiring/cable from the panel to the AC and about 2 hours later the AC tripped again.
I explained to the electrician that the lights in the family room also flicker when the stove is on, not just when the stove turns on, but when the stove is on. For example if the stove is on 30 minutes the lights will flicker 4-6 times where they completely go out and come back on. They said that's normal. I also explained that when my neighbor is home (they didn't move in until July and are here a few days at a time) that the breaker trips and they said that that's also not an issue.
I just spoke with the owner of the company and he kept trying to blame the AC again, yet I believe in the process of elimination. If we keep doing the same thing and expect a different results, then that is pointless as it's not fixing the issue. I also told him that I'm not requesting any work to be done that's already been done on their end. They asked me what I want them to do and I said I'd like for them to replace the panel. They obviously refused and said it was a good brand new panel. After going back and forth I said well if the panel is good, you put it in your home, and give me yours and they laughed and said no. They hit me with the "we have been doing this for 30 years, we install 2000 panels a year and no issues, etc". We aren't going to change a good panel because it costs money, time and labor and I explained to them that this unresolved issue will also cost money, time and labor as well.
Lastly I said if you don't want to change the panel, stop asking me what to do. Write me a letter saying that the panel is functioning fine and there are no issues and I will call an ESA inspector/electrician and if they find a fault, then we will go from there and obviously they refused again.
I am unsure of what to do. I feel like I've done my part by getting another brand new AC. They can't seem to figure out what the issues are. They say the lights quickly going on and off isn't tied to the AC and that is normal (even though I've lived in 8 homes and never seen it continuously flickering, I've seen it flicker when you turn an appliance on for the first time but not consciously non stop flickering). I am really hoping that someone has any insight since they are asking me what they want me to do. I am obviously not an electricity expert, and I am curious as to what else we can do.
Thanks a lot everyone!
On the AC unit outside there will be a rating plate that specifies the minimum circuit ampacity and the maximum breaker size. Can you let me know what those numbers are and what size breaker and what gauge of wiring is installed.
Hopefully someone checked the wiring between the disconnect box and the AC and that those connections are tight.
If your AC copper lineset is over 15' in length the AC installer likely would've had to add refrigerant. If they didn't it could be the system is freezing up which can cause the breaker to trip. When the evaporator coil freezes you can expect little to no airflow coming out of the supply events throughout the house.
I've attached a picture of the rating plate. The inside breaker in the panel is a double slot breaker and it had 15 on it. For the wiring they rewired it with 12 gauge this Friday instead of the 14 gauge.
I'm not sure what the last part of your post means "If your AC copper lineset is over 25' in length the AC installer likely would've had to add refrigerant". I'm not sure what that means. I've updated a few other pictures to show you how the setup looks like and the wiring/connections.
That smaller copper line and the bigger copper line, covered in black insulation, lead to the furnace and connect to the evaporator coil.
That model of AC comes with enough refrigerant for a 15' long line set. So if that line set travels more than 15' from the outside AC to the inside furnace, the installer should have added refrigerant. If not, on a hot day, the system will start to freeze and that can cause the amperage to increase and the breaker to trip.
I would call the AC installer to see if they have notes that refrigerant was added. Once you get someone to verify the AC is charged properly, and the compressor and fan amperage are within range, you should be able to rule out the AC.
It definitely sounds like there could be some unrelated electrical issues though. Lights going on and off when the stove is on does not sound normal, as they would be fed by 2 different circuits. Breakers should not trip when the neighbor is home either. You could also call the Hydro company to make sure there is not a problem with their service and connections.
Is the wiring to the panel main breaker properly sized and inserted deep and screwed tight ..also you could have an issue from the meter box to the panel..wires could be loose in terminals..everything has to be torqued to spec
Is your basement finished?
Would it be a possibility for you to visually identify the 12 gauge wire running from electrical wire and follow it to the point of going out through the wall towards the AC.
What you are looking for are junction boxes that interrupt the wire and if any other wires go through the same junction box.
A loose connection somewhere. Be it on the AC line, or at and before the electrical panel can explain your problems.
Is your stove electrical?
Do you have a digital stat, or mechanical?
If digital, check to make sure comp time delay is set at 5 minutes
If mechanical, you might want to add a delay timer in the OD unit
Hi everyone and thanks for your input.
The builder's electrical contractor said they exhausted all options. I've contacted my utility supplier and they came out to check the power quality and they said it was fine. The breaker hasn't tripped since Friday night which is the exact same time my neighbors left and they are still not back home, and the breaker still hasn't tripped.
Due to that connection of the neighbors not being home, and the AC breaker not tripping... I am leaning that it's a power quality issue from the utility company. They did tell me to call them back when the neighbor's home so they can do another check.
The issue is that the lights in the family room and upstairs in the primary bedroom still flicker on and off occasionally... Not sure what else can be the issue in this home?
Quote from: samihabib on September 25, 2023, 09:47:21 PMIs the wiring to the panel main breaker properly sized and inserted deep and screwed tight ..also you could have an issue from the meter box to the panel..wires could be loose in terminals..everything has to be torqued to spec
So from the utility companies meter box to my panel...who would be in charge of that connection there? the builder or the utility company?
Quote from: Sergroum on September 26, 2023, 08:17:26 AMIs your basement finished?
Would it be a possibility for you to visually identify the 12 gauge wire running from electrical wire and follow it to the point of going out through the wall towards the AC.
What you are looking for are junction boxes that interrupt the wire and if any other wires go through the same junction box.
A loose connection somewhere. Be it on the AC line, or at and before the electrical panel can explain your problems.
Is your stove electrical?
I dont have a basement as it's a 3 story. When they re-ran the 12 gauge wire from the panel to the AC it travelled through the wall's and ceilings out to the side of the townhome and straight to the AC.
edit: Yes I have an electrical stove
My stove is all electric and it never dims or flickers lights when I turn it on or run it. I've never heard of this. I've seen and heard of the first initial in-rush current making lights very momentarily dim upon the first second, but that should be it. I don't know anybody else with a stove that has that problem. Them telling you it's normal is them lying. Are there multiple lights that flicker? Are they LED? incandescent?
Quote from: Porcupinepuffer on September 28, 2023, 07:30:00 PMMy stove is all electric and it never dims or flickers lights when I turn it on or run it. I've never heard of this. I've seen and heard of the first initial in-rush current making lights very momentarily dim upon the first second, but that should be it. I don't know anybody else with a stove that has that problem. Them telling you it's normal is them lying. Are there multiple lights that flicker? Are they LED? incandescent?
Yea I've known about the light flicker when the stove first turns on, or when a major appliance like the AC turns on but thats it, I've never experienced where it keeps on flickering occasionally.
The lights in the family room are just standard pot lights, the light in the master bedroom is a regular bulb (incandescent)
Hi again,
still have the same unresolved issues. The utility came out and did a test and they said it's' all working fine.
I have another question for the experts here; Is it possible that the oven can cause my AC breaker to trip? Yesterday the oven was on for 30 minutes and couldn't hit 425 degrees. When it was working it's way up to that temperate the AC breaker tripped. I restarted it and it constantly kept tripping to the point where I would restart it and it would immediately go trip. I saw a spark in the panel where there was no breakers located. I decided to keep the AC breaker off and as soon as we left it off the oven was able to finally reach 425 degrees. Once the oven was off I restarted the AC breaker and it didn't trip. Is it possible that the oven can trip the AC breaker? Or is it due to the power quality from the utility company?
The AC circuit and stove circuits are separate and use different wiring and breakers.
The issue definitely sounds electrical and not HVAC related. Don't worry about any builder warranties. You can hire your own 3rd party electrician and have them diagnose the issues, then advise the builder of what needs to be corrected.