Author Topic: Director's Order FS-156-09 - Natural Draft Boiler Installations  (Read 5874 times)

Offline Admin

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Director's Order FS-156-09 - Natural Draft Boiler Installations
« on: September 29, 2009, 04:51:08 PM »
You can download the Directors Order FS-156-09 - Here

Offline ssmrjm

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Re: Director's Order FS-156-09 - Natural Draft Boiler Installations
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2009, 09:02:12 PM »
has anyone got a letter or email from tssa about this? i talk to the inspector from union gas and they know nothing about it.

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Re: Director's Order FS-156-09 - Natural Draft Boiler Installations
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2009, 09:50:29 PM »
This order becomes effective October 15, 2009.  TSSA has been trying to ban natural draft boilers in Ontario for some time now.

Offline theclick

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Re: Director's Order FS-156-09 - Natural Draft Boiler Installations
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2016, 06:15:09 PM »
The contents of this order FS-156-09 are not in the 2014 gaseous fuels amendments; I couldn't find anything pertaining to the type of room a boiler should be housed in. If I'm wrong, please let me know.

I revived this thread because I'm dealing with this situation right now. I Just wanted to let you and your readers know. Not trying to come off as dick here.. no matter which way I word it though.. I still feel like a dick.   :lol   

Having said that, I want to take a moment to thank you, Admin. I appreciate you taking the time to keep all of us updated on this stuff. It takes a lot of commitment, dedication and passion to do what you do. As a total newbie in this trade, the information found on this site has been invaluable to me.

thedick

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Re: Director's Order FS-156-09 - Natural Draft Boiler Installations
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2016, 08:36:04 PM »
What's the problem or concern with the boiler location?

Visit this thread as well,

http://www.hvactechgroup.com/hvacforum/index.php?topic=1117.0

And thank you for the kind words.

Offline theclick

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Re: Director's Order FS-156-09 - Natural Draft Boiler Installations
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2016, 09:44:26 PM »
I'm pretty sure FS-156-09 is a different order from FS-072-06.  Both are still listed as active on the TSSA's website. And I cannot find any documentation stating one was replaced by the other. The job I'm dealing with had a brand new, Natural draft cat 1 boiler put in (is this even allowed anymore?). They installed it in a furnace room which was using an oil furnace. Now using old furnace as the air handler for the ND boiler system, which is sitting a couple of feet beside the air handler.

According to FS-156-09, the boiler room needs to be isolated from the rest of the house with weather stripping, caulking, self closing hardware on doors ect..  that's how i'm interpreting it at least.

This installation has been bugging me, I shut it down, immediate hazard. I keep thinking if this thing starts spilling in that room.. the air handler is gonna pick those products up and distribute them throughout the home. The more I think about this job, the sketchier it gets. .

How terrible does this installation sound so far?

Offline Porcupinepuffer

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Re: Director's Order FS-156-09 - Natural Draft Boiler Installations
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2016, 07:41:51 AM »
Now you got me confused because I would normally assume that fs-212-14 amendments with annex M is all we need to know when coming across boilers. In the entire G3 and G2 course, these room were requirements were never mentioned. To me, the Annex M requirements make more sense and seem safer in the long run for the customer.

I would contact TSSA and ask them about it since the room requirements with sealing off joists spaces and hardware for closing doors is not at all in the codebook with the latest amendments. I think they should have those old orders listed as superseded.

Out of the many boiler systems I've seen in the Glebe in Ottawa, I don't recall ever seeing them in a room installed to those requirements, but I have almost always seen the annual tags hanging on them from annex M.

I'm sure 99% of newer gas technicians have never seen that order and would simply follow the tests required in annex M to make sure there's no spillage. You'd want to look into it further incase you deemed it an immediate hazard for nothing.

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Re: Director's Order FS-156-09 - Natural Draft Boiler Installations
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2016, 09:38:47 AM »
Quote
The contents of this order FS-156-09 are not in the 2014 gaseous fuels amendments; I couldn't find anything pertaining to the type of room a boiler should be housed in. If I'm wrong, please let me know.

Apologies, my first post was wrong stating that FS-156-09 was adopted into Code.  I had it confused with FS-072-06.  Order FS-072-06 applies to testing any natural draft boiler and FS-156-09 applies to the new installation or replacement of a natural draft boiler.  Order FS-072-06 was adopted as Annex M, in the B149.1-10, when it expired December 1, 2012.  And FS-156-09 is actually more recent than FS-072-06.  FS-072-06 has been around since 2006 and subsequently renewed every year until 2012, but FS-156-09 became effective in 2009 and does not have an expiry date.  I think your concerns are valid.  I'm really surprised FS-156-09 hasn't been adopted into Code considering how stringent it is.
 
Quote
1. A new or replacement boiler with an input less than 300 00 BTUH shall be:
1b. a residential Category I, natural draft boiler equipped with a draft hood with an input less than 300 000 BTUH may be installed in the same location as the boiler that is being replaced, provided that;
i. the boiler is installed in a room that is not normally occupied and that does not directly communicate with occupied areas (boiler room shall be isolated including but not limited to sealing door(s) with weather stripping, joist spaces closed off with appropriate sealing method, etc.);
ii. the boiler room door(s) shall be equipped with self-closing hardware and kept closed during boiler operation;
iii. combustion air is supplied from the outdoors to the space in which the boiler is located in accordance with Clauses 8.2.4 and 8.3 of the CAN/CSA-B149.1-05, Natural Gas and Propane Installation Code, regardless of building construction;
iv. combustion air shall be in accordance with the manufacturers certified instructions;
v. a carbon monoxide alarm certified to CSA-6.19-01 shall be installed adjacent to or within each sleeping area in every suite of the home.

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Re: Director's Order FS-156-09 - Natural Draft Boiler Installations
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2016, 06:57:27 PM »
Regarding the furnace that was converted into an air handler, did they install a heating coil inside of it?

Look at these Codes;

Quote
4.2 Approval of appliances, accessories, components, equipment, and material

4.2.1
An appliance, accessory, component, equipment, or material used in an installation shall be of a type and rating approved for the specific purpose for which it is employed.

4.2.2
When deviation from or postponement of these requirements is necessary, permission in writing shall be obtained from the authority having jurisdiction before the work proceeds, and this permission shall apply only to the particular installation for which it is given.

4.2.3. The approval of the assembly or construction of an appliance is subject to the authority having jurisdiction and shall comply with Section 2 of the Code Adoption Document.

If the furnace / air handler is connected to the boiler, it could be considered part of the appliance.  Ontario Regulation 212/01 and the B149.1-10 use the same definition;

Quote
“appliance” means a device that consumes or is intended to consume a gas and includes all valves, fittings, controls and components attached or to be attached to it;

I'm wondering if that system is even approved.


Offline theclick

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Re: Director's Order FS-156-09 - Natural Draft Boiler Installations
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2016, 10:38:32 PM »
Regarding the furnace that was converted into an air handler, did they install a heating coil inside of it?

Look at these Codes;

Quote
4.2 Approval of appliances, accessories, components, equipment, and material

4.2.1
An appliance, accessory, component, equipment, or material used in an installation shall be of a type and rating approved for the specific purpose for which it is employed.

4.2.2
When deviation from or postponement of these requirements is necessary, permission in writing shall be obtained from the authority having jurisdiction before the work proceeds, and this permission shall apply only to the particular installation for which it is given.

4.2.3. The approval of the assembly or construction of an appliance is subject to the authority having jurisdiction and shall comply with Section 2 of the Code Adoption Document.

If the furnace / air handler is connected to the boiler, it could be considered part of the appliance.  Ontario Regulation 212/01 and the B149.1-10 use the same definition;

Quote
“appliance” means a device that consumes or is intended to consume a gas and includes all valves, fittings, controls and components attached or to be attached to it;

I'm wondering if that system is even approved.

The air handler/oil furnace looks like it had the heating coil already installed in the supply plenum. I'm green as grass in regards to these types of systems. The heating coil..if were talking about the same thing (large orange tubes coming out of it), is being fed from the wood boiler located outside. I'm pretty sure the new Natural draft boiler is tied into the heating loop.

My head was swimming from the second I got in there. I should've looked more closely at how everything was working together. I was too focused on the safety orders, multiple code infractions and annex M.

How would I find out about the approvals for this system?      Would it be in the manufacturers instructions?

Any recommendations on how to proceed from here? 


Now you got me confused because I would normally assume that fs-212-14 amendments with annex M is all we need to know when coming across boilers. In the entire G3 and G2 course, these room were requirements were never mentioned. To me, the Annex M requirements make more sense and seem safer in the long run for the customer.

I would contact TSSA and ask them about it since the room requirements with sealing off joists spaces and hardware for closing doors is not at all in the codebook with the latest amendments. I think they should have those old orders listed as superseded.

Out of the many boiler systems I've seen in the Glebe in Ottawa, I don't recall ever seeing them in a room installed to those requirements, but I have almost always seen the annual tags hanging on them from annex M.

I'm sure 99% of newer gas technicians have never seen that order and would simply follow the tests required in annex M to make sure there's no spillage. You'd want to look into it further incase you deemed it an immediate hazard for nothing.

I found other issues that cover that immediate tag. Room had no combustion air, the exhaust vent didn't have proper rise at the chimney inlet (I vaguely remember something about chimneys having to be cleaned when switching from one form of energy to another, can't find it at the present moment.. I'm pretty sure it wasn't done though), the massive hole in the floor directly above the boiler lol. There were quite a few problems. I did have to escape from there at one point though.. not allowed to sit in the customers driveway all day, researching all these orders and codes.

I do plan on asking the TSSA about FS-156-09, and why it is not included in the amendments. 

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Re: Director's Order FS-156-09 - Natural Draft Boiler Installations
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2016, 07:21:27 AM »
Issue a warning tag for Clause 8.2.4 for no combustion air and reference Order FS-156-09 and Clause 4.2.1.

I would let the installer worry about it.  If they clear the warning tag it's no longer your problem.

Quote
7.6.3
When an existing vented appliance is to be converted from a solid or liquid fuel, the chimney shall be examined and shall meet the requirements of Clauses 8.12.2 to 8.12.11.

I don't think Clause 7.6.3 applies in your case.

Quote
8.12.2 Except as provided in Clause 8.21.6, before replacing or removing (and leaving one or more appliances still connected to chimney) an existing appliance or connecting a vent connector to a chimney, the chimney flue shall be examined to ascertain that the chimney:
(a) is properly constructed;
(b) is lined with a tile or metal liner;
i. if installation of a liner is required it shall be completed by the installer or his agent undertaking the l replacement or connection of the new appliance within 5 days for residential applications and 30 days for commercial application of replacing the existing appliance
ii. a tile liner is not acceptable for an exterior chimney, it shall be relined with a certified metal liner.
(c) is clear and free of soot, creosote, or obstructions;
(d) will effectively conduct the products of combustion outdoors; and
(e) is sized in accordance with Clause 8.13.