Indoor pool heater venting

[Xiaopig9]

We have a Hayward H250fdn (250 k Btu) pool heater with draft hood, plan to install inside of the room, there isn't a chimney in the room. The room is 12 ft high, the building is 30ft high. The owner don't want run the vent from outside to the roof. Is it possible set the termination immediately outside the wall of the room? Use fan assisted? How to select fan? Put outside or inside?

[bster352]

Page 16 in the manual states you can.

https://www.hayward-pool.ca/pdf/manuals/UniversalH-seriesLowNOx-HxxxFDService&Installation.pdf

[Admin]

Here are some Codes to be aware of;

7.25.1
A pool heater shall be installed on a
(a) firm and level base; and
(b) non-combustible floor or support, except where the pool heater is
(i) certified for installation on a combustible floor;
(ii) installed using the pool heater manufacturer's certified special base; or
(iii) installed as specified in Clause 4.13.3.

7.25.2
Except where permitted by Clause 4.13.2, a pool heater shall be installed with the following minimum clearances from combustible material:
(a) vertical — 18 in (450 mm);
(b) sides and rear — 18 in (450 mm); and
(c) front — 48 in (1200 mm).

7.25.3
A pool heater installed outdoors shall be located a minimum of 18 in (450 mm) from any property line.

7.25.4
A wall-mounted pool heater shall be securely attached.

7.25.5
An outdoor pool heater shall not be installed beneath any structure, including a deck.

7.25.6
A pool heater of the finned-tube type shall be installed outdoors or in an enclosure that is not normally occupied and does not directly communicate with occupied areas. Direct-vent pool heaters of the finned-tube type are exempt from this requirement.

7.25.7
When an existing indoor swimming gas-fired pool heater is being replaced with a new gas heater, the new finned tube type heater shall be of the direct vent type.

7.25.8
Where a heater is installed in accordance with Clause 7.25.7, it shall be the responsibility of the owner of the heater to provide maintenance for the heater in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions, but in no case less than once annually.

7.25.9
An outdoor pool heater shall be installed so that the flue discharge is in accordance with Clause 8.14.10.

[Xiaopig9]

Thanks a lot
Another question: Could a category lll gas appliance vent though a wall ( horizontal)?

[Attavior]

You replacing an existing pool heater?

7.25.7
When an existing indoor swimming gas-fired pool heater is being replaced with a new gas heater, the new finned tube type heater shall be of the direct vent type

[Xiaopig9]

It's called Finn plate hx, is it different from finned tube type heater? The manual instates it could install indoor.

[Admin]

As a negative pressure vent that pool heater is considered a Category I appliance and would need to use B-Vent, as per Table 8.5 of the Gas Code.

The Gas Code says,

Category I appliance — an appliance that operates with a nonpositive vent static pressure and with a flue loss not less than 17%.
Note: This category consists of draft-hood-equipped appliances, appliances labelled as Category I, and fan-assisted appliances for venting into Type B vents.

[Xiaopig9]

This pool heater can be convert to positive pressure venting, so it is not category I, it's a category III appliance with positive pressure venting kits.

Because the owner don't want run vent to the roof, so it can not be used as category I appliance with B vent.

[Admin]

Follow Table 3 in the installation manual.  If you use the positive pressure vent adapter kit, it allows horizontal venting and termination.

See Clause 8.14.12 of the Gas Code;

8.14.12
A vent from an appliance shall not extend through an exterior wall and terminate adjacent to the exterior wall unless
(a) the appliance is a direct-vent appliance;
(b) the appliance is intended for connection to a special venting system;
(c) the appliance and its complete vent assembly are specifically certified to be installed in this manner;
(d) the venting system is equipped with a certified power venter that complies with Clause 8.29.2; or
(e) the venting system is equipped with a certified power venter that complies with Clause 8.24.2.

[Xiaopig9]

Thx Admin.

I confused by other technician, he said it can use draft hood & B vent though the wall, set termination at the exit of the wall , just leave 10 ft from any openings.

[Admin]

If the pool heater is using the negative pressure vent adapter then the manual says the appliance is considered a Category I appliance and could use B-Vent for vertical terminations only.

If the pool heater is using the positive pressure vent kit and considered a Category III appliance, then Table 8.5 of the Gas Code says to use Type BH vent or special venting systems.

For the venting follow Table 9 in the manual.  Don't forget you will probably require a 8" outdoor combustion air supply as well.

VENT SIZING
Vent pipe diameter must match the vent pipe diameter on the heater (see Table 9). The vent pipe must be Heatfab single or double-wall stainless steel sealed vent as listed in Table 9. Double-wall vent must be used in non-conditioned spaces. The maximum total length of vent pipe, and number of 90-degree elbows cannot exceed the limits specified in Table 8.

The venting system must be installed in accordance with the vent manufacturer's (Heatfab) installation instructions and guidelines. The installer is urged to visit Heatfab's website (www.heatfab.com) and review the installation information for Saf-T Vent EZ-Seal (single-wall) and/or Saf-T Vent CI Plus (double-wall) products.

VENT TERMINATION
The vent system must terminate with a vent terminal approved for this pool heater. Termination may be either horizontal or vertical. See Table 9 for the Heatfab vent terminals which are approved.

Clauses 7.25.9 and 8.14.10 apply to outdoor pool heaters.  If we follow Clause 8.14.8, for indoor installations, we need to maintain a 3' clearance from a building opening.

Clause 8.14.10 - The flue gas discharge opening for an outdoor pool heater shall terminate not less than 10 ft (3 m) from any building opening.

Download the Director's Advisory FS-106-07 here,

http://www.hvactechgroup.com/files/advisory/fs10607.pdf

It doesn't actually mention the word "outdoor" in the Advisory, so I'm not sure if a 10' rule would be enforced.  If the 10' rule is enforced and a window is too close to the vent, the Advisory allows us to disable the window so it's not considered a building opening.

[Xiaopig9]

I called Hayward Canada tech support, he said this poor heater is not allowed install indoor by code in Canada, the manual is just for States. And Hayward doesn't have indoor installed pool heater in Canada. So it can be installed outside with pump continue running for indoor pool, or install a boiler instead. Or anyone knows a pool heater allowed indoor installation?
Thx everyone.

[Admin]

The manual has CSA approval, for Canada.

The reason it can't be installed indoors, in Ontario, is because of Clause 7.25.7, like Attvior mentioned.  You need a direct vent pool heater.

Raypak is the only manufacturer I know of that sell pool heaters that are approved for indoor installations in Ontario.  Look for the Raypak X94.  It is a direct vent model with sealed combustion.

[Xiaopig9]

X94 is too big for this pool, need change gas meter, pipe size, not a good choice, may be boiler is the only way.

[walker]

Is inside of a shed considered "indoors"

Because I've seen all kinds of non direct vented water heaters installed in sheds.

[Attavior]

7.25.6
A pool heater of the finned-tube type shall be installed outdoors or in an enclosure that is not normally occupied and does not directly communicate with occupied areas. Direct-vent pool heaters of the finned-tube type are exempt from this requirement.


Not usually occupied, not communicate with occupied areas, I'd say shed ok.