Whalen Woes

Started by Sergroum, June 19, 2019, 06:34:46 AM

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Sergroum

Heya, folks. I'd be grateful to hear what you think.

So, a whalen heat pump in a condominium.
vp-a-603-bd
refrig. chassis 603-blyb.
r410

Giving me 50 suction with head climbing up to 600s within 2 minutes. No time to check for subcool/superheat. Gradual icing up over the coil starting from the capillary tubes leading from evap.coil to the txvalve.

Restriction right?
Pumped the system down, pulled off the txvalve, purged it from all ends. Installed a new txvalve, purged it some more. There is no filter dried in these systems. Vacuumed the hell out of it, recharged it.
Put it back in. Same exact problem.

Checked the water. This is a water sources heat pump by the way. Interesting fact, I'm getting the same readings whether my water supply/return are turned on, or shut. I get same readings. But I checked it regardless. The valve opens fine and when opened manually, the pressure is high enough to do a nice healthy jolt of water. I believe it should be 4.5 gpm, but I have no way of measuring that. I 'believe' the pressure is good.

During heat, it is said to work, problems began only when it was turned to cooling. But I cant check it properly, I dont think. The water flowing supply is turned to cold right now. Now my thoughts are on reversing valve, but what can be happening to it to cause 50 suction/600 liquid.

Admin

The fact it works when heating should rule out a liquid line restriction.  Is the airflow through the coil sufficient?  The water should cool the condenser and lower the head pressure.  Is there a heating TXV in the heat pump with the reversing valve? 

A valve stuck mid-way results in a significant amount of leakage between low and high side pressures, producing symptoms of a faulty compressor with high suction and low head pressures.

If you switch it to heating what kind of pressures do you have?

Sergroum

Unfortunately I cannot switch to heat mode :( It's a building thing. I guess I should've bypassed it and put it in heat that way. Meh.

I thought the signs of compressor failure/valve stuck in the middle is high suction, low head. How can lack of suction result in low suction? I might be wrong in that, sorry.

The airflow. I mean the unit worked for years and the ductwork is very basic. The rads are pristinely clean. There is nothing to impede the airflow in any way.   I guess the fan could be working slower somehow. I'll measure the cfm next time I'm there. To be honest, I assumed the airflow as a stable constant since the ductwork/blower is so basic. One singular grill on one of the wall and return on the other.


Admin

It's the head pressure that has me thinking it's got something to do with the water sourced condenser.  I have very little experience on water source heat pumps so hopefully another member can let us know what could cause the head pressure to rise so high.

Hgye

What is the delta t between the inlet and outlet of the water?

Sergroum

Basically none. The unit works only for 2-3 minutes. There is no noticeable change in temperature on the water side.

Hgye

Have you confirmed that the pumps are working?

harshal

I will suspect the high head pressure due to not enough water flow to the condenser.you have to have the temperature difference of 10 degrees at least to function it properly.based on the formaul q=m cp temp difference ,you can calculate how much temp difference you should have it.
I think your system is not running long enough to get the reading.
If the compressor locking out on high head pressure then for sure it is issue with not enough water going through it to cool down the condenser .
All the best .

Sergroum

I thought as much as well. But what could be causing this? I doubt the pumps are gone. If that was the case, the entire building would have a problem, not one singular unit. I let the water flow into one pipe and it shot out the other. So there is no plug.

Sergroum

interesting.

The supply water is 102 Fahrenheit. Should be between 75 and 95. At the cooling tower, the temp of the water is reading 78 Fahrenheit.  The rest of the building, which is hundreds of units seems to be fine. Nobody else is complaining, just this one individual unit. That... shouldnt be possible. The return is 105 Fahrenheit.

DAVID

Quote from: Admin on June 19, 2019, 08:39:46 AM
The fact it works when heating should rule out a liquid line restriction.  Is the airflow through the coil sufficient?  The water should cool the condenser and lower the head pressure.  Is there a heating TXV in the heat pump with the reversing valve? 

A valve stuck mid-way results in a significant amount of leakage between low and high side pressures, producing symptoms of a faulty compressor with high suction and low head pressures.

If you switch it to heating what kind of pressures do you have?

I have a Whalen Heat Pump Model # VI-A-403-BO , it is work on cooling mode but not heating mode. reversing valve is working but compressor is not running.
what should i test ?
do you think any issue with relay?
because on cooling cycle is working , but when i change thermostat from cool to heat , only fan is running and no compressor ?

Sergroum

Well. Reversing valve is in heat mode when deenergized, so I guess it would be working in heating mode, since it doesn't need to do anything.

You'll need to track down the current. Does the compressor recieve the current when heat is called for? What about 24volt? Is it getting anywhere?  Is the thermostat new? Maybe it got wired/setup as if it's a conventional furnace and Y is not getting energized at all.

You know that compressor is working due to AC working. now you just need to figure out why the call for heat never gets where it needs to. Tstat/wiring/logic (board, or relays).