Author Topic: Vent for a door  (Read 683 times)

Offline wantboost

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Vent for a door
« on: July 05, 2018, 10:09:37 PM »
What type of vent /grill do u recommend putting on a door

Offline NoDIY

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Re: Vent for a door
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2018, 11:02:19 PM »
for what purpose?

Offline wantboost

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Re: Vent for a door
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2018, 11:19:37 PM »
for what purpose?
I forget the term .

Room needs fresh combustion air ??

Offline Porcupinepuffer

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Re: Vent for a door
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2018, 03:49:39 AM »
Just a basic return air grill that will cover the required square inches you need. I also take into account how the joists are located and how many are open at the ceiling height.

Offline wantboost

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Re: Vent for a door
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2018, 04:53:44 PM »
Just a basic return air grill that will cover the required square inches you need. I also take into account how the joists are located and how many are open at the ceiling height.
My door has thr square design tho ...? Also , i dont follow what u are trying to say about the joists .. 

Offline Admin

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Re: Vent for a door
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2018, 05:44:15 PM »
If the mechanical room is unfinished, the joist space in the ceiling is likley communicating with another area that is supplying enough air to the appliance.  I would check the Tables and make sure you don’t need an outdoor air supply though.  Usually Enbridge will require an outdoor air supply even if the basement has enough volume of air and satisfies the Code and manual’s combustion air requirements.

Offline Hvacpimp

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Re: Vent for a door
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2018, 01:16:07 PM »
Lately enbridge has loosened up on that a bit because of numerous complaints. They will be satisfied if the grills are installed high and low in the rooms. If this cannot be done for whatever reason, you better believe they gonna make you add the outdoor air supply.  I had to deal with them on this same topic last week!

Offline NoDIY

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Re: Vent for a door
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2018, 10:00:27 PM »
not many homes dont fall under the following: Bring in the air.. 50 year old homes after numerous renovations become tight over time


An outdoor air supply sized in accordance with Clause 8.2.2 shall be provided for an enclosure or a
structure in which an appliance is installed when the enclosure or structure
(a) has windows and doors of either close-fitting or sealed construction, and the exterior walls are
covered by a continuous, sealed vapour barrier and gypsum wallboard (drywall) or plywood or a
similar material having sealed joints; or
(b) has an equivalent leakage area of 78 in2 (0.05 m2) or less at a differential pressure of 0.00145 psig
(10 Pa) as determined by a recognized Canadian fan depressurization test procedure.

Offline Porcupinepuffer

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Re: Vent for a door
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2018, 03:53:09 AM »
Size of room? Size of home? type and size of equipment needing air?

Offline wantboost

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Re: Vent for a door
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2018, 07:12:38 PM »
Size of room? Size of home? type and size of equipment needing air?

Room is small has gas furnace enclosed
 Size of a closet with minimum gap around it .
Home is 1200 sq ft .

Offline wantboost

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Re: Vent for a door
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2018, 09:54:56 AM »
Can u guys help me out . Is it  called combustion air vent ?

Ie getting air from another room . When the furnace is enclosed within a room . Why is this necessary anyway ?

Offline Admin

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Re: Vent for a door
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2018, 10:09:06 AM »
With today's homes you will likely always need to supply an outdoor air supply, unless all gas appliances are direct vent.  See Clause 8.2.2.

The only exception is when you install a non direct vent water heater, under 50,000 BTU's, but you must install a permanent opening to communicate with the rest of the house as per Clause 8.2.3 and 8.2.6.

Quote
Clause 8.2.3 - An outdoor air supply shall not be required for a single water heater with an input of 50 000 Btuh (15 kW) or less within an enclosure or structure where there are no other appliances that require an air supply. Except for direct-vent water heaters, when the water heater is contained in an enclosure, permanent openings shall be provided as described in Clause 8.2.6.

Quote
Clause 8.2.6 - When an appliance(s) is located within an enclosure and permanent openings sized and located in accordance with Items (a) and (b) of this Clause are supplied to allow communication between the enclosure and the rest of the structure, the total volume of the structure may be used to determine air supply requirements, provided that the structure is not constructed as described in Clause 8.2.1(a) and does not comply with Clause 8.2.1(b). Otherwise, the volume of the enclosure shall be used. The openings shall be as follows:
(a) In all cases, an opening shall be provided that shall
(i) have a free area of not less than 1 in2 per 1000 Btuh (2225 mm2 per kW) of the total input of all appliances within the enclosure; and
(ii) be located not more than 18 in (450 mm) or less than 6 in (150 mm) above floor level.
(b) When one or more appliances are equipped with draft-control devices, an additional opening shall be supplied having the same free area as the opening required in Item (a), and the opening shall be located as near the ceiling as practicable, but in no case lower than the relief opening of the lowest draft-control device.

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Air supply (with respect to the installation of an appliance) — combustion air, excess air, flue gas dilution air, primary air, secondary air, and ventilation air.

Combustion air — the air required for satisfactory combustion of gas, including excess air.

Excess air — that portion of the combustion air that is supplied to the combustion zone in excess of that which is theoretically required for complete combustion.

Flue gas dilution air — the ambient air that is admitted to a venting system at the draft hood, draft diverter, or draft regulator.

Primary air — that portion of the combustion air that is supplied for the initial stages of the combustion process and is supplied upstream from the point of ignition.

Secondary air — that portion of the combustion air that is supplied for the intermediate and final stages of the combustion process and is supplied downstream from the point of ignition.

Ventilation air — air that is admitted to a space containing an appliance to replace air exhausted through a ventilation opening or by means of exfiltration.

Offline wantboost

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Re: Vent for a door
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2018, 07:40:24 PM »
I have a fresh air supply outside . I guess the term I am looking for is ventilation air .
So do I need a vent to allow air to enter the utility room (furnace room)

Offline NoDIY

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Re: Vent for a door
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2018, 04:23:33 PM »
If you have an appropriately sized combustion air coming into the room terminated with in a foot above the appliance with the larger input you don't require any air communication with the adjacent rooms

You need to provide more details in order for us to determine how much.
Furnace is natural draft or fan assist or sealed combustion two pipe? What BTU input

Same Info required for the tank. BTU type of tank ect..




Offline wantboost

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Re: Vent for a door
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2018, 04:46:28 PM »
It's a 2 pipe . Thx
What do u mean by with the larger input?

I ll get the info on the hot water tank. 

So are these vents called makeup air ?


If you have an appropriately sized combustion air coming into the room terminated with in a foot above the appliance with the larger input you don't require any air communication with the adjacent rooms

You need to provide more details in order for us to determine how much.
Furnace is natural draft or fan assist or sealed combustion two pipe? What BTU input

Same Info required for the tank. BTU type of tank ect..

Offline Porcupinepuffer

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Re: Vent for a door
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2018, 05:23:31 PM »
If my memory serves me, I believe ventilation air ontop of already having combustion air is only a requirement on very large btu equipment.  Like what you get in commercial/industrial.

Offline Admin

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Re: Vent for a door
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2018, 07:03:31 PM »
If you're furnace is direct vent (2 pipe) it's providing it's own air from outside.  Assuming you have a non direct vent water heater you should be fine using the outdoor combustion air supply you already have.  There is no need for the enclosure to communicate with the rest of the house.  If the non direct vent water heater is under 50,000 BTU's you can eliminate the outdoor combustion air pipe and install a grill on the door.

Porcupinepuffer is right, you only need to worry about supplying outdoor ventilation air with appliances over 400,000 BTU's as per Clause 8.4.  In this case you would still need to supply an outdoor combustion air supply.

Larger input means to terminate the outdoor combustion air above the burner of the appliance with the highest BTU's.  In your case the furnace is direct vent and exempt, so the outdoor air supply terminates above the burner on the non direct vent water.

Usually you only need a make-up air unit if the home is using a large CFM exhaust fan / range hood.  I don't think that's what you need.

Offline wantboost

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Re: Vent for a door
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2018, 11:13:03 PM »
The furnace room is enclosed in a different room then the water tank .
So I do need a vent for the hot water tank to vent with the rest if the house ??

If you're furnace is direct vent (2 pipe) it's providing it's own air from outside.  Assuming you have a non direct vent water heater you should be fine using the outdoor combustion air supply you already have.  There is no need for the enclosure to communicate with the rest of the house.  If the non direct vent water heater is under 50,000 BTU's you can eliminate the outdoor combustion air pipe and install a grill on the door.

Porcupinepuffer is right, you only need to worry about supplying outdoor ventilation air with appliances over 400,000 BTU's as per Clause 8.4.  In this case you would still need to supply an outdoor combustion air supply.

Larger input means to terminate the outdoor combustion air above the burner of the appliance with the highest BTU's.  In your case the furnace is direct vent and exempt, so the outdoor air supply terminates above the burner on the non direct vent water.

Usually you only need a make-up air unit if the home is using a large CFM exhaust fan / range hood.  I don't think that's what you need.

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Re: Vent for a door
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2018, 11:06:34 PM »
Is the water heater non direct vent?

If the water heater is 50,000 BTU’s or less, as per Clause 8.2.3 you must follow Clause 8.2.6.  See the attached picture from the B149 Handbook.

If you’re water heater exceeds 50,000 BTU’s you will need an outdoor air supply.